Can the Stilo support OBD over CAN?

Hi,

I just wanted to ask this question again.

Can the Fiat Stilo now support OBD over CAN, or not?

Should I update my adapter now, or not?

Currently, I'm using the internal CAN bus and I'm mostly satisfied with it.

OBD would be fantastic, especially due to its diagnostic function.

It would be very interesting for another reason:
My air conditioner is acting up. The actuators simply aren't working as they should.
Sometimes, one side gets scorching hot while the other side is freezing cold. (I have a two-zone climate system.)

Fiat says I should bring the car in as soon as possible when the next error code appears, so they can read it.
Most of the time, this happens when there isn't a workshop nearby.
(Is my Stilo afraid of the mechanic's shop, just like some people are afraid of the dentist?)

Therefore, the question is whether I could read it directly.

@yellowstilo: Do you have any tips for me? (Besides buying an Examiner?)

Best regards, Peer.

Hi,

I just wanted to ask this question again.

Can the Fiat Stilo now support OBD over CAN, or not?

Should I update my adapter now, or not?

Currently, I'm using the internal CAN bus and I'm mostly satisfied with it.

OBD would be fantastic, especially due to its diagnostic function.

It would be very interesting for another reason:
My air conditioner is acting up. The actuators simply aren't working as they should.
Sometimes, one side gets scorching hot while the other side is freezing cold. (I have a two-zone climate system.)

Fiat says I should bring the car in as soon as possible when the next error code appears, so they can read it.
Most of the time, this happens when there isn't a workshop nearby.
(Is my Stilo afraid of the mechanic's shop, just like some people are afraid of the dentist?)

Therefore, the question is whether I could read it directly.

@yellowstilo: Do you have any tips for me? (Besides buying an Examiner?)

Best regards, Peer

Hello Peer,

The Stilo does not have OBD communication via CAN.
OBD only deals with things related to emissions, while diagnostics is something else.
While the motor ECU has a high-speed CAN connection (500 kbps), it is used for the dynamic control of the vehicle.
You can extract some data from there (e.g., engine speed, camshaft sensor, etc.), but that's not the data used for OBD.
For OBD data, the engine control unit (ECU) has a separate K-line.
(applies to ABS, airbags, and electric power steering).
Starting in 2008, most (all?) vehicles will have OBD functionality via CAN, because CAN will become the universal protocol, replacing PWM, VPW, ISO, KWP2000, etc.
Most likely, the new Bravo has OBD over CAN (but I'm not entirely sure...).
The CAN network in the Stilo supports KWP2000 via (low speed) CAN (50 kbps) - meaning that this protocol can be used to send and receive reports over the CAN network.
Most CAN nodes have diagnostic and/or self-test functions that allow you to test the nodes, read errors, and clear them (this does not apply to high-speed nodes, as diagnostics are performed via the K-lines).
Okay, OBD and diagnostics are different things. OBD is primarily for engine management (and possibly the manual transmission), while diagnostics are available for almost all components via K-lines (if high-speed CAN) or via a CAN connection if it's low-speed.
So, your problem with the (automatic?) climate control might be diagnosable using low-speed CAN communication and the KWP protocol (which the Examiner tool also supports!).
I would prefer not to disclose all the details at this moment because I first want to sell the codes and procedures for the service reset, as I have invested a significant amount of time and money in deciphering them.
I believe this is probably the most desired code at the moment for DIY enthusiasts working on the electronic systems of Stilo cars.
If I sell this procedure/code, I will provide multiple CAN codes.
Unfortunately, I have to charge a higher amount for this particular instance because the code may be published online after the sale.
It would be possible for multiple members or interested parties to purchase the code together to keep the costs manageable. If everyone then sells their code (once or multiple times), they could quickly recoup their costs.

best regards,
yellowstilo

...
Starting in 2008, most (all?) vehicles will have OBD functionality via CAN, because CAN will become the universal protocol, replacing PWM, VPW, ISO, KWP2000, etc.
...

Hello yellowstilo,

Please don't always mix everything up like that, even though you're often right and trying to explain things.

CAN is a network topology, not a protocol. KWP2000 is a protocol (KWP stands for Keyword Protocol) that can be used both over K-Line (a serial infrastructure) and over CAN (e.g., according to ISO 15765, which is not a protocol itself but a standard that describes a protocol).

It is therefore important for a vehicle to know:

1. Which protocol is being used (e.g., KWP1281 [e.g., VW], KWP2000 [e.g., Mercedes-Benz], etc.)?

2. Which topology is used (K-Line, e.g., VW up to approximately model year MJ2004, Mercedes up to approximately model year MJ2000, or CAN (new models))?

3. What do I want to do? (OBD - standardized On-Board Diagnostics, provides known PIDs, ECU diagnostics, and variant coding - requires special software).

Regards,

Mike.

Hello...

1. CAN is a network topology and not a protocol

2.
In network technology, the term 'topology' refers to the structure by which the participants are connected. Common structures (topologies) include bus, star, and ring. CAN is therefore not a topology, but merely a bus system!


3.
... Generally, the bus system, particularly its lower three layers according to the ISO OSI model, often determines the topology.
...


1. = 2. + 3. -> To make it understandable for most people, I had simplified and summarized it. (not in the mathematical sense as an equation)

IMHO, it only becomes more confusing for the layperson if the term ISO is then immediately used again, even though the ISO OSI 7-layer model is, of course, perfectly correct in this context. However, ISO9141 or ISO15765 only describe parts or individual layers of it, because the remaining layers (Physical Layer, Data Link Layer (ISO 11898)), Network Layer) are already determined by the topology/bus system.

It was important to me to explain the following in the most understandable way possible. Posting a mix of seemingly unrelated things, explained in a general and simplified way.

Given that IBM's TokenRing, like many other fieldbus systems commonly used in automation technology within the automotive industry, is largely irrelevant today, and that even many younger PC users are probably unfamiliar with it, I believe that mentioning it might actually be more confusing for the explanation.

Nevertheless, you are absolutely right with your comprehensive explanation.

Regards,

Mike.

Hello Mike / Jens,

Of course, it's possible that I didn't use the right words to answer Peer's question (it's already a bit difficult for me in German), but I hope that Peer (and possibly other readers) understand what I mean.
I'm just a hobbyist who tinkers with cars and electronics, and I've learned everything out of personal interest. If I've provided any incorrect information, please feel free to correct me.
In my opinion, the most important thing was the answer to the original question about whether the Stilo's OBD system uses CAN.
Furthermore, I tried to...
To explain the difference between OBD (On-Board Diagnostics) and general node diagnostics in the Fiat Stilo.
I hope this turned out reasonably well.

Sure, here is the translation of the text from German to English:

'gruss'
'greetings'
yellowstilo